i think the most important question is: since ore holds cannot be modified by cargo modules/rigs, therefore will the hulk continue to be the largest total ore capacity ship out there? I'm assuming my 10k m3+ ice mining hulk will still be my bread and butter...i'd like to be wrong and see them come out with the AFK3000 O.R.E. barge - alas somehow i doubt it.

Retriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.
Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.

The Orca is a confused ship at the moment:

(1) Who wastes a mid slot with a survey scanner? The extra shield mod is more useful
(2) Would prefer shield transfer bonus over survey scan bonus (for 0.0)
(3) Ore bay should be an ore bay, not a tiny cargo extension
(4) Should be able to carry 3 Hulks, not 2 as at present

They don't mention the support skills, only Mining Barge, due to the inherent ridiculousness of training a month to fly a Covetor and then a day or two more for a Hulk. There's nothing in the blog to indicate that it's their intention to strip out Astrogeology etc. at all. In fact they're more likely to add a skill, as they mention wanting ORE Mining frigate to IV to be a prerequisite as well.

I get the impression the HULK will have a 6,000m3 ore hold equal to its unmodified cargohold. and will probably have its cargohold reduced to a small bay for mods and crystals. But I could be wrong.

Requests for changes to mining often ask for changes that will result in significant increases to yield throughout New Eden. These kind of changes are NOT required even after recent iterations such as removal of drone compounds etc. Mineral prices,in terms of high sec ores at least, have reached a level where imo mining is now an economically viable career.

The number one concern with the proposed changes to mining is the idea to reduce EHP on Covetors & Mackinaws. I'm not a suicide ganker but I personally feel that EHP on Covetors and Hulks is about right atm and does not need to increase either. If you are not afk and have fitted some tank then you will be relatively safe. New Eden is about risk and I think even speaking as a miner it is about right atm. If miners feel the need to fly something more sturdy and the changes for the Procurer go through then they will something more to their taste to mine in.

Provided this change to Covetors and Hulks can be quashed then the new dev blog won't completely ruin where mining is atm.

Forum just ate my post.

Brief reply to above criticism:

Nul sec minerals (Megacyte etc.) have always been priced higher than high sec minerals (Mexallon etc) and I see nothing wrong with that. Pyroxeres is mainly more expensive than the mainstream ores becuse it contains a trace amount of Nocxium in it once refined. But Pyroxeres is only available in some races high sec space and in very sparse amounts in Minmatar & Gallente high sec systems.

The 'resilience' spoken of in the latest ship balancing dev blog relates largely to plans for the Procurer which is rarely used by the mining community. If you read on to the section on Covetors & Hulks you will find it says they will be given 'little to average EHP'. This implies that CCP will decrease the amount of EHP on both the Covetor & Hulk under the mistaken belief that placing them in a fleet with some combat ships will protect Hulks from being ganked. Logic dictates this approach will fail miserably.

A broken Hulk with less EHP just means Retrievers will be the preferred mining ship due to 1) better EHP, 2) Larger ore bays.

GÇóProcurer/Skiff: primarily made for self-defense. Better mining rate than the ORE frig, good ore bay, but capable of having battleship-like EHP.

GÇóRetriever/Mackinaw: made for self-reliance. Has the largest ore bay, similear to the size of a jet can, second best mining output but less EHP than the procurer mining barge.

GÇóCovetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP, but best mining output. Basically made for group operations when players have industrials and protection to back them up.

Maybe the bolded parts where it says the Hulk will have litle to average EHP?

From the Dev blog

"Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP,..."

Currently with reasonable fits

Skiff EHP: 13000
Mac EHP: 18000
Hulk EHP: 23000

Average EHP: 18000

So the Hulk will have a tank that is equal to or less than 18000 EHP.

Which brings the question for CCP: When you say the new Hulk will have an average EHP, average of what? Current Exhumers? Marauders? Titans?

The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore

Then you can only haul just under 200k m3. Which is about 6.5 - 7 cans full. Sorry but I can't feel sorry for your "plight,' High Sec doesn't need to become even easier. Find a system with a station in it and haul it to the station and and come back for more ore. Refine, and either use the minerals to build or ship them in a freighter to sale.

Basically I'm stuck piloting a Bestower with only 13k m3 and it's too small. Cater to the middle class plox.